sureai:Community Portal

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Revision as of 12:52, 8 September 2016 by Dimecoin (Talk | contribs) (Books/Notes: page standards, template)

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Welcome to the Community Portal of the SureAI Wiki. It is the main discussion forum for policies and improvement of the Wiki.

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What constitutes an Enderal Spoiler?

Obvious Enderal Spoiler Alert. Hey, I guess I'll be the first one to use the portal! I want to know what everybody thinks about Spoilers. I'm assuming that everyone editing the wiki has already finished Enderal, so if you haven't, avert your eyes. Some things are pretty obviously spoilers, especially everything that The Black Guardian tells you at the end-game, the beacon triggering the cleansing, the cleansing creating a new high one, the fact you've been dead all this time, etc. Some other things I believe are not spoilers at all, such as the player's background, as it's literally the first quest of the game. But what about the "intermediate" steps? Should the fact that the player is an Emissary be considered a spoiler? I've been referring to the player in articles as "The Prophet" all this time, but maybe that's a spoiler in itself? Should the existence and function of The Beacon be considered a spoiler? Should the Pyrean's fate be considered a spoiler? The Starling's fate? About companions, should Calia's "inner demon" be a spoiler even though it's one of the first things she tells you on her personal quests?. So, tl;dr: Where do we draw the line from "starting information" to "spoiler"? -- Davipb (talk) 18:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I, for one, have actually not even started the game in earnest yet and have still been a consistent contributor to the wiki. I have contributed to things such as places, character progression, memories and talents, classes, etc. I want to be able to learn as much about the game's mechanics and structure before diving into it. So when you said 'avert your eyes' ... I did. And I didn't read any more of your post. I'm assuming that you're wanting to discuss the use of spoilers here in the wiki. To me, the only place where spoilers will come into play is in the quests and walkthroughs sections. Any other information ... people, places, creatures, spells, talents, maps, etc. ... are all just background and reference information. I personally won't be going through the quests and walkthroughs until I get to them in game, but to me as long as any information that gives away significant plot lines or major story points are marked somehow as spoilers, I see no problem. Obviously, if one wants to read ahead through all the quests before playing them, they're going to see spoiler information ... but that's their choice. -- J'Sylvan (talk) 15:20 29 Aug 2016 (EST)

Hm, I honestly didn't think someone would help at the wiki before finishing the game, so I guess it was good I put that spoiler warning by precaution! However, I was asking mostly a question of "what" rather than "where". Indeed, most pages about places, spells, talents, etc should be spoiler-free, but for other pages, say, pages about the lore itself, what should we even consider a spoiler? Marking everything from the second quest upwards as a spoiler would just be excessive and remove the actual meaning of the spoiler tag, but at the same time, we don't want people reading a plot point they consider important in an unmarked area. So, in summary, I'm asking what information we consider spoilers and what we don't. (Which I suppose you can't help discuss yet, as you'd need to read about the end-game story -- don't spoil yourself in this awesome game!) -- Davipb (talk) 21:26, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I've been asking myself the question about spoilers for a bit now too and it's what's keeping me from continuing on the Jespar / Calia pages in ernest. I've thought about just spoiler tagging the whole section, but that would sort of undermine the purpose of the entries. I've been thinking about subdividing the description into seperate sections, but I'm not sure how to do it best. Maybe a spoiler section and a non spolier one? Or maybe an overview followed by sections like "Personality" and "History"? Robinate (talk) 16:48, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Places Page and Regions of Enderal

I recently updated the Regions section of the Places page to reflect all the various regions on the Enderal map. I worked with several members of the SureAI team for about 2 weeks to come up with an accurate map of Enderal including all the regional boundaries. They even sent me the storybible for Enderal which is the 'outline' for the entire Enderal mod and includes the maps and regions that the SureAI team used when building the mod. There are 13 distinct regions in Enderal that in almost all cases are actually very distinctly defined both on the in-game map and as you're exploring the world of Enderal in game.

Sometime in the last couple of days, I see that someone has updated the Regions section and rearranged the regions and moved some of the regions into other regions that they are not part of. I don't know if this was done to try and make the page more readable because of the number of regions or to try and consolidate content or whatever, but I think we should probably try to agree on layouts of things like this as much as possible. So ... some of the regions as they are now are very definitely not a part of the regions they're listed under and I thought maybe we could discuss these issues here instead of continually making changes back and forth on the actual wiki pages.

If these changes were made in an attempt to logically consolidate some of the regions, and that's the direction we want to go, then I might suggest breaking Enderal down into four larger 'regions' (based on geography) to include all the smaller distinct regions without making any new regional names or placing regions where they shouldn't be. Something like the following:

  • Eastern Enderal
    • Goldenforst
    • Thalgard
    • Powder Desert
    • King's Mountain Pass
  • Central Enderal
    • Ark
    • The Heartlands
    • The Farmer's Coast
    • Dark Valley
    • Whisperwood
  • Southwest Enderal
    • The Sun Coast
    • Western Cliff
  • Northern Enderal
    • Frostcliff Mountains
    • The Crystal Forest

Thoughts anyone? -- J'Sylvan (talk) 07:45 31 Aug 2016 (EST)

I don't do much work in the places/regions section of the wiki, but I think we should go with the "official" one, the one you worked out with the SureAI members. It's what the game is designed around, and the wiki is made to describe the game as faithfully as possible. We could add a Template:ModalBox telling everyone those regions are official and they shouldn't move them around when editing. That's just my opinion, though. -- Davipb (talk) 21:50, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I was browsing the wiki this morning and noticed that we now have two separate pages that list the regions of Enderal (one on a Regions page and one within the Places page) and information is not uniform across both of these pages. This is my first time really editing a wiki and I guess this is one of the downfalls of relying on user-created content ... that multiple people will submit the same information in multiple places but using different formats and structure. I am going to work on both of these pages today to try and clean them up based on information on Enderal from the SureAI team. I hope no one takes offense that I am editing their submitted content, but I guess that is part of the process when working on a wiki.

With no feedback on using my suggestion of geography to break Enderal's map into larger regional areas, I may go ahead and incorporate that and see how it works, -- J'Sylvan (talk) 08:30 02 Sep 2016 (EST)

Books/Notes: page standards, template

Dimecoin has started to create book pages and a template. (On the confusion about Skyrim books in the Enderal game data, please read our conversation on my talk page). Dimecoin has asked for help setting up the template and the books pages. I think we should discuss a common standard for how book/nore texts should be presented on our wiki and how to improve the template. As a suggestion for how a book list and the individual book pages could look like, I'd like you to have a look at Skyrim:Books and Skyrim:16 Accords of Madness, v. VI ... on uesp.net, of course. :) Holomay (talk) 09:23, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

I think we should only make pages for the important books, the ones that have a lot of content in them. Things like notes or letters with one or two written lines can easily be condensed into a single page. As for the visuals, I can make a book template that looks like the other templates (Template:NPC, Template:EnderalSettlements), if everyone agrees. -- Davipb (talk) 15:26, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Yea, your templates look a lot better than mine! Please do
anyone know if we can remove old wiki pages (I can remove those skyrim books if so) Dimecoin (talk)
Let's take talk about book template over to book page (btw, it looks great, thanks Davipb!). Template_talk:Book Dimecoin (talk) 18:37, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Only admins can delete pages. I'll take care of it. :) Holomay (talk) 08:26, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
To make things easier and cleaner, I put all the bad pages into their own Category:Enderal-Pages-To-Delete Dimecoin (talk) 22:42, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


Here is a starter page for "multiple" books (all named Note or variety of that): Enderal:Notes I can start adding text, but any thoughts on this? Format isn't great, any suggestions? Dimecoin (talk) 20:09, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Actually, a table is probably the best format for those books. If you want, I can try improving the look of the table, but it'll be mostly spacing out the cells and adding a few borders. -- Davipb (talk) 23:14, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
ok, I added some text to get a feel what it'll look like. Can you try to format table a bit? Thanks. Dimecoin (talk) 23:49, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Looks great Dave! Thanks. Couple ideas 1) In the Table, could the name, etc be aligned to top? 2) I love the icons, can those be used in book template too? Dimecoin (talk) 12:52, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Books to add

I've updated the table of all Enderal books and notes in my sandbox. It now contains the English titles. --Holomay (talk) 08:42, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
ok, I'll use your list. Should each spell tome (rank) have it's own page? chain lighting for example, has ranks I though VI
for now, I'm excluding Spell Tomes and the following (I'll review them case by case, they have duplicate names so might combine the pages)
  • "Note",
  • "Earnings",
  • "Letter",
  • "Bulletin",
  • "Journal",
  • "Scribbled",
  • "Written Paper",
  • "Order",
  • "Message",
  • Enderal:Night,
  • "Empty Book",

Dimecoin (talk) 19:42, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

All LORE books added and with Text (except for the ones noted above). See: [Category:Enderal-Books-Lore] The formatting is off, I will be modifying each by hand.

I could use help with the following:

  • Manually editing pages to make them look nice
  • Extract the images from the game somehow, anyone know how to do this ? Dimecoin (talk) 20:54, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
I can help with the formatting. As for the images, from my limited knowledge of how Skyrim works, they must be in the BSA files. Maybe we could find a BSA extractor online? -- Davipb (talk) 20:56, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Update: I found this BSA Extractor, and it seems to be working fine. Book images can be found on the three Texture BSAs, in textures/enderal/books. -- Davipb (talk) 21:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Dave, your pages look really nice (especially with the images now! :) ) Dimecoin (talk) 22:13, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


Night There are unique copies of this book called 'Night' (one with "good" ending and one with "bad" ending). Should they be same page or separate ? If separate, what name/url should they have? If same page, how to do one template with two formids, etc? -- Dimecoin (talk)

We should put them both in the same page, Enderal:Night. Then it's just a matter of adding two book templates and the two book contents, making explicit they're two separate books with the same name. - Davipb (talk) 23:14, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Ok done, feel free to adjust formatting. Dimecoin (talk) 23:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

A problem with NPCs pages

Hi guys, I noticed we have two pages on Wiki: http://en.wiki.sureai.net/Category:Enderal-NPCs http://en.wiki.sureai.net/Enderal:NPCs

How about deleting the smaller one? I see someone has already moved some of the names, so all of the NPCs have already been moved to the bigger one.

I also noticed that many people are annoyed with one of the MQ: http://en.wiki.sureai.net/Enderal:The_Void#Open_all_5_starling_locks_before_the_pivots_break

I googled the quest and I saw plenty of people getting frustrated and wanting to quit the game because of the quest ;)


See you around! --Kassandra (talk) 15:20, 6 September 2016 (UTC)Kassandra

Those aren't duplicate pages. One is a category, an auto-generated list of all pages that have been categorized as an NPC (See also Category:Stubs, Category:Pages that Need Images, Category:Enderal-Quests, etc), and the other is an actual Wiki Page, maintained by humans. The Category serves mostly for wiki organizational purposes, while the actual page should list NPCs by significance, by place, have extra info on how NPCs work and so on (in fact, that alphabetically listed table on Enderal:NPCs should be deleted, maintaining it manually is nigh impossible). About the main quest, I haven't had any problems with that quest, to me it was just a matter of getting there quickly, following the quest markers. -- Davipb (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2016 (UTC)