What constitutes an Enderal Spoiler?
Obvious Enderal Spoiler Alert. Hey, I guess I'll be the first one to use the portal! I want to know what everybody thinks about Spoilers. I'm assuming that everyone editing the wiki has already finished Enderal, so if you haven't, avert your eyes. Some things are pretty obviously spoilers, especially everything that The Black Guardian tells you at the end-game, the beacon triggering the cleansing, the cleansing creating a new high one, the fact you've been dead all this time, etc. Some other things I believe are not spoilers at all, such as the player's background, as it's literally the first quest of the game. But what about the "intermediate" steps? Should the fact that the player is an Emissary be considered a spoiler? I've been referring to the player in articles as "The Prophet" all this time, but maybe that's a spoiler in itself? Should the existence and function of The Beacon be considered a spoiler? Should the Pyrean's fate be considered a spoiler? The Starling's fate? About companions, should Calia's "inner demon" be a spoiler even though it's one of the first things she tells you on her personal quests?. So, tl;dr: Where do we draw the line from "starting information" to "spoiler"? -- Davipb (talk) 18:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
I, for one, have actually not even started the game in earnest yet and have still been a consistent contributor to the wiki. I have contributed to things such as places, character progression, memories and talents, classes, etc. I want to be able to learn as much about the game's mechanics and structure before diving into it. So when you said 'avert your eyes' ... I did. And I didn't read any more of your post. I'm assuming that you're wanting to discuss the use of spoilers here in the wiki. To me, the only place where spoilers will come into play is in the quests and walkthroughs sections. Any other information ... people, places, creatures, spells, talents, maps, etc. ... are all just background and reference information. I personally won't be going through the quests and walkthroughs until I get to them in game, but to me as long as any information that gives away significant plot lines or major story points are marked somehow as spoilers, I see no problem. Obviously, if one wants to read ahead through all the quests before playing them, they're going to see spoiler information ... but that's their choice. -- J'Sylvan (talk) 15:20 29 Aug 2016 (EST)
- Hm, I honestly didn't think someone would help at the wiki before finishing the game, so I guess it was good I put that spoiler warning by precaution! However, I was asking mostly a question of "what" rather than "where". Indeed, most pages about places, spells, talents, etc should be spoiler-free, but for other pages, say, pages about the lore itself, what should we even consider a spoiler? Marking everything from the second quest upwards as a spoiler would just be excessive and remove the actual meaning of the spoiler tag, but at the same time, we don't want people reading a plot point they consider important in an unmarked area. So, in summary, I'm asking what information we consider spoilers and what we don't. (Which I suppose you can't help discuss yet, as you'd need to read about the end-game story -- don't spoil yourself in this awesome game!) -- Davipb (talk) 21:26, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
I've been asking myself the question about spoilers for a bit now too and it's what's keeping me from continuing on the Jespar / Calia pages in ernest. I've thought about just spoiler tagging the whole section, but that would sort of undermine the purpose of the entries. I've been thinking about subdividing the description into seperate sections, but I'm not sure how to do it best. Maybe a spoiler section and a non spolier one? Or maybe an overview followed by sections like "Personality" and "History"? Robinate (talk) 16:48, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Places Page and Regions of Enderal
I recently updated the Regions section of the Places page to reflect all the various regions on the Enderal map. I worked with several members of the SureAI team for about 2 weeks to come up with an accurate map of Enderal including all the regional boundaries. They even sent me the storybible for Enderal which is the 'outline' for the entire Enderal mod and includes the maps and regions that the SureAI team used when building the mod. There are 13 distinct regions in Enderal that in almost all cases are actually very distinctly defined both on the in-game map and as you're exploring the world of Enderal in game.
Sometime in the last couple of days, I see that someone has updated the Regions section and rearranged the regions and moved some of the regions into other regions that they are not part of. I don't know if this was done to try and make the page more readable because of the number of regions or to try and consolidate content or whatever, but I think we should probably try to agree on layouts of things like this as much as possible. So ... some of the regions as they are now are very definitely not a part of the regions they're listed under and I thought maybe we could discuss these issues here instead of continually making changes back and forth on the actual wiki pages.
If these changes were made in an attempt to logically consolidate some of the regions, and that's the direction we want to go, then I might suggest breaking Enderal down into four larger 'regions' (based on geography) to include all the smaller distinct regions without making any new regional names or placing regions where they shouldn't be. Something like the following:
- Eastern Enderal
- Powder Desert
- King's Mountain Pass
- Central Enderal
- The Heartlands
- The Farmer's Coast
- Dark Valley
- Southwest Enderal
- The Sun Coast
- Western Cliff
- Northern Enderal
- Frostcliff Mountains
- The Crystal Forest
- I don't do much work in the places/regions section of the wiki, but I think we should go with the "official" one, the one you worked out with the SureAI members. It's what the game is designed around, and the wiki is made to describe the game as faithfully as possible. We could add a Template:ModalBox telling everyone those regions are official and they shouldn't move them around when editing. That's just my opinion, though. -- Davipb (talk) 21:50, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
I was browsing the wiki this morning and noticed that we now have two separate pages that list the regions of Enderal (one on a Regions page and one within the Places page) and information is not uniform across both of these pages. This is my first time really editing a wiki and I guess this is one of the downfalls of relying on user-created content ... that multiple people will submit the same information in multiple places but using different formats and structure. I am going to work on both of these pages today to try and clean them up based on information on Enderal from the SureAI team. I hope no one takes offense that I am editing their submitted content, but I guess that is part of the process when working on a wiki.
With no feedback on using my suggestion of geography to break Enderal's map into larger regional areas, I may go ahead and incorporate that and see how it works, -- J'Sylvan (talk) 08:30 02 Sep 2016 (EST)
What is official word on how we are doing Regions and Places? I don't have preference, but would like some guidelines so I can start adding places for quests. Dimecoin (talk) 13:48, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Template talk : Template_talk:Book
- To make things easier and cleaner, I put all the bad pages into their own Category:Enderal-Pages-To-Delete Dimecoin (talk) 22:42, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Small "books" and misc papers, letters, etc
- Looks great Dave! Thanks. Couple ideas 1) In the Table, could the name, etc be aligned to top? 2) I love the icons, can those be used in book template too? Dimecoin (talk) 12:52, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Quest and Lore
Food (Skill) Books
How do you want to handle these. They are the 'Skill points', 'Learning Points' and 'Memory Points'. In game, they are category 'food' items (probably for technical reasons). Should they be treated like normal books or 'consumables'? One could also say they should be on the skills pages ? Dimecoin (talk) 16:50, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- I think that, just like the Spell Tomes, they should be in the Skills page, as they're not really books on their own. We could make a redirect Enderal:Learning Book and etc page for convenience, if needed. -- Davipb (talk) 20:53, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- That was my idea too, you can see I even linked to Enderal:Grounding (Spell) and Enderal:Boon (Spell) in a few quest pages. The tomes definitely belong there, as they're not really books per se. - Davipb (talk) 20:53, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Ok, all spell tomes and spells are added with all data I had. Still needs lots of work, but a good starting point. Hopefully community will help fill some of this out :) Dimecoin (talk) 16:17, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
A problem with NPCs pages
How about deleting the smaller one? I see someone has already moved some of the names, so all of the NPCs have already been moved to the bigger one.
I also noticed that many people are annoyed with one of the MQ: http://en.wiki.sureai.net/Enderal:The_Void#Open_all_5_starling_locks_before_the_pivots_break
I googled the quest and I saw plenty of people getting frustrated and wanting to quit the game because of the quest ;)
- Those aren't duplicate pages. One is a category, an auto-generated list of all pages that have been categorized as an NPC (See also Category:Stubs, Category:Pages that Need Images, Category:Enderal-Quests, etc), and the other is an actual Wiki Page, maintained by humans. The Category serves mostly for wiki organizational purposes, while the actual page should list NPCs by significance, by place, have extra info on how NPCs work and so on (in fact, that alphabetically listed table on Enderal:NPCs should be deleted, maintaining it manually is nigh impossible). About the main quest, I haven't had any problems with that quest, to me it was just a matter of getting there quickly, following the quest markers. -- Davipb (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
I got a message from User talk:Tilliboy about the Enderal:Technical_information and Enderal:LauncherDebugging and starting a thread to discuss how to organize and present this information. I read the reddit forum and a large majority of posts are about crashes or performance issues, so think it would be helpful to document some common issues/fixes... but if you disagree that it should be on wiki, we can remove (for now I'll put in a disclaimer.
Also the following pages could potentially be organized, merged, grouped or cleaned up :
- Hi Dimecoin! We should definitely discuss how we arrange these pages. Foremost I would suggest to let the page Developer Information an extra page. It can be filled out later with pictures and more information about the team and the development on Enderal, Nehrim and the other projects (Facebook link, Twitter link, Steam group etc.).
- Regarding the Enderal Installation page: It can be merged into your new page about technical information. But on top of your page should be the instruction for the Skyrim Clean Install, followed up by the Enderal installation instruction. I wonder wether we need the written instruction. There are great installation videos out there (linked on Enderal:Installation). That should be enough as guide.
- The next step on Technical information would be "Troubleshooting Enderal Launcher". A link to the seperate page should be enough because this page will be updated by us (SureAI). You can change the design and spelling/grammtic errors (maybe the structure) but please do not change the content! The same for all the patch pages: The content will be created by us. Layout and design can be changed in agreement with us.
- The content of "system requirements", "bug reporting", "getting help" and "patches and updates" is all right.
- Conercing the "Performance Tweaks": On top should be plausible tips like lowering the settings with the Enderal Launcher (before using external mods/programs): i.e. shadows, do not use Experimental Multithreading, disabling/enabling OneTweak, trying different settings for CPU and RAM usage etc.
- After that there should be the disclaimer which includes the hint that we can't give support to modded Enderal versions/changed .ini's with the reason: not tested from official site.
- First off I would mention simple .ini changes like disabling the grass. "UseOSAllocators" and "Experimental Multithreading" should have both an extra disclaimer because both increase the requirements immensely (higher than official minimum and recommended requirements)! Using mods like "Optimized Textures" should be the last option (because of no support). If you have some suggestions let me know. Kind regards, Tilliboy (talk) 13:38, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
- ok, I updated the Enderal:Technical_information page and put a redirect from Enderal Installation page to it. I adjusted some sections and rearranged and put stronger disclaimers on the Performance Tweak section. Let me know if anything else needs to be adjusted. Dimecoin (talk) 16:03, 17 September 2016 (UTC)